tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post2123023591425972405..comments2023-10-22T03:29:52.892-04:00Comments on There's a Dragon in my Art Room: Teaching Art - the sensitive concept of nudityPhylhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-85683115409746390652013-10-12T12:14:08.974-04:002013-10-12T12:14:08.974-04:00Thank you, Bug, for posting this comment and expre...Thank you, Bug, for posting this comment and expressing your thoughts about this fabulous video. You couldn't have said it any better!Phylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-82201477841764250942013-10-12T11:10:21.571-04:002013-10-12T11:10:21.571-04:00Just shocking...shocking I tell you...that anyone ...Just shocking...shocking I tell you...that anyone had a problem with the video...I loved the video...I watched the video right after I read your post today and found it outstanding. The use of art vocabulary, clear definitions, thought provoking ideas, loved how the children are the narrators...this was a good educational video! Thanks for sharing and am glad the person was shocked or I wouldn't have seen your post! Gotta love them!<br />BUGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02616851169665422887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-62390726144638954392013-10-04T07:27:33.906-04:002013-10-04T07:27:33.906-04:00What a fantastic topic to discuss. To my mind you ...What a fantastic topic to discuss. To my mind you did absolutely everything you could to cover yourself and it's fantastic that your school supports you in what you are doing.<br /> I have a huge box of postcard size art prints that the early finishers look through frequently and several times a year I end up having a discussion about a photograph of a particular sculpture which is at the National Gallery of Victoria, in Melbourne. I can't recall the artist's name off the top of my head but the sculpture is rather unforgettable, as it is of an overweight, heavily paunched, hairy chested, life sized, middle aged man in his daggy old white y front undies!!! <br />He usually causes great hilarity but inevitably one child or another will ask why he is there with nearly nothing on, and isn't he rather inappropriate. So we then discuss how well made he is and how realistic, and how when I have seen him on display at the gallery he is just usually standing in a corner somewhere and people jump, laugh and react as they think he is real when they first see him! <br />So after the discussion i would like to think that they see him as a piece of art first and secondly, an old man that looks like their Grandpa in his undies. <br />There have always been at least a dozen nudes in the box - and this old guy always causes more discussion than them! However. if nudity ever comes up as a discussion point I always drag him out, and we then discuss how some artists are creating artworks because they are looking for realism and not always looking for the most beautiful body to show their ability off. And what about artists not looking for realism? Plenty of Picasso's ladies have at least one boob hanging out, at least one of them in the picture box too.<br /> I think because I don't over react, "Well we've all got a body haven't we, and we're all nude when we get in the bath aren't we?" and then we just get on with our work that no nude in my art room, or my art box of pictures, has ever caused any great controversy.<br />And yes, the children are seeing Miley Cyrus - ish images on music videos ALL THE TIME, and they are much more damaging than any old nude piece of art work! <br />Keep up the good work on your blog, it is very entertaining, and I would love it if you had a look at my blog.<br />http://thebackartroom.global2.vic.edu.au/<br />Thanks,<br />ShelleyShelley Menhennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06946987275541283965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-79878984616132857992013-09-14T16:39:09.008-04:002013-09-14T16:39:09.008-04:00Good points! Think about what kids are seeing tod...Good points! Think about what kids are seeing today on Miley's video! I think the bigger concern is often the parents. It' always interesting to me how a parent will ban a controversial book for their kids but let them play the most violent of video games or see the crudest stuff on TV or the movies. You never know how parents might respond, so it's best to ask permission of the administration at least to cover your butt!Phylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-10003393109816358592013-09-14T11:03:15.999-04:002013-09-14T11:03:15.999-04:00I think when nudity is presented/discussed in the ...I think when nudity is presented/discussed in the appropriate way, students of all ages respond appropriately. At the high school level, this is a touchy topic. In my painting/drawing classes, my kids don't even bat an eyelash at the nudity in renaissance works. In photography it's a little different, because it seems a little more raw- I do a lesson where I explain the difference between being naked and being nude, and I've found that even the goofiest of high school boys are able to accept the difference and recognize which ones are art, and which ones are not.VVednes Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17937907936393233719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-73622631787039033022013-08-31T16:06:52.177-04:002013-08-31T16:06:52.177-04:00Thanks for stopping by - your profile indicates yo...Thanks for stopping by - your profile indicates you are in Boston (my 24 year old son lives there too! great city!). So I'm curious which museum you work at.Phylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-38284831189748510482013-08-31T16:03:03.520-04:002013-08-31T16:03:03.520-04:00Carissa, hahahaha! I just took a look at the hand...Carissa, hahahaha! I just took a look at the hand sculptures, and they look like.... well... they look like HANDS!!! Makes me wonder about that sub!<br /><br />Anyhow, thanks for visiting and commenting. It is very much appreciated.Phylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-12241293578022284282013-08-31T16:00:20.193-04:002013-08-31T16:00:20.193-04:00Deborah, thanks for chiming in! I just checked ou...Deborah, thanks for chiming in! I just checked out the Tarot Garden, and oh my gosh, if I ever get to Tuscany, that is definitely a 'must-see'!! <br /><br />I'm not sure what you mean by 'sign me up for your newsletter' - if you mean this blog, I don't have to do anything. You just have to either follow me on Blogger or on Bloglovin' and you will get updates when I write a new post (which I am about to do!). Please do stop and visit some more! And don't be afraid to teach surrealism - the kids will love you for it.Phylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-24183310804816481602013-08-31T14:39:39.294-04:002013-08-31T14:39:39.294-04:00Thanks for this wonderful post! It is a sensitive...Thanks for this wonderful post! It is a sensitive topic when dealing with kids - and you do need to know the climate of your school and community - well put! I left an Art21 video with a sub last year and she reported that she had to turn it off because of the phallic images - I was freaking out since I had previewed the material - how could I miss that?! Turns out they were hand sculptures by Louise Bourgeois - I would've never gotten the same impression, but we all bring different experiences to the table! Carissa Zillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10571573878568586749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-90602227624730053422013-08-31T08:12:38.270-04:002013-08-31T08:12:38.270-04:00great discussion of a topic that i wrestle with in...great discussion of a topic that i wrestle with in my own art classroom. i don't have much time to reflect on this posting today but i want to say you did a great job prepping your students and following protocol so that your admin is supporting you. you have inspired me to teach surrealism, i haven't done that with my students in years, never seems to be enough time to do all that i plan! i see grades 1-5 1 time per week, like you I have great kids and supportive and educated community. <br />have done a bunch of nikki projects, saw an extensive sculpture garden exhibit of hers in chicago a few years ago. she has many, many more scuplptures than the Nanna's, those are just the ones she is best known for. Check out her Tarot Garden, she built it in northern italy, very inspiring. there are photos of her working on The Sphinx, huge sculptures the size of buildings! anyway gtg, please sign me up for your newsletter,<br /> best, debbieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-82255745141823392392013-08-29T15:09:50.015-04:002013-08-29T15:09:50.015-04:00Phyl: I really enjoy your blog! I am the education...Phyl: I really enjoy your blog! I am the education coordinator at a museum and often find myself on the other side of this conversation, explaining to students who are not "my own" (most often 5th graders who I have often just met) why there is nudity in a particular exhibit. Thanks for your thoughts!AD (http://truegoodbeautiful.blogspot.com)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01914112820698587851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-62267139598372271012013-08-27T23:46:34.437-04:002013-08-27T23:46:34.437-04:00I was lucky, I saw my kids for 40 minutes, twice i...I was lucky, I saw my kids for 40 minutes, twice in a 6-day rotation. And actually, as I said in a reply to Art Project Girl above, I primarily used that time for hands-on experiences, but I felt this video was worth the time it took to show (one class period). And I absolutely LOVE teaching surrealism, often using it with my older kids in combo with teaching perspective. We also love the book Dnner at Magritte's, by Michael Garland. If you've never seen it, check it out!Phylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-46959076215881228772013-08-27T23:39:50.901-04:002013-08-27T23:39:50.901-04:00Erica, I actually showed videos very rarely. I di...Erica, I actually showed videos very rarely. I didn't like taking away even a minute of precious hands-on time. In particular, I disagreed with a student teacher of mine who showed a movie about Mary Cassatt. It was a lovely movie, took two full class periods, and while it was based on reality, the story in the movie was fictional. I thought that spending two 40 minute class periods watching a piece of fiction was irresponsible. But I previewed this video and found it particularly engaging and intriguing, quite unique, and it so beautifully explains the basic concepts of surrealism. Definitely not fluff! Anyhow, visiting museums is a challenge for my school. While there is a lovely museum 45 minutes away, the collection is mostly renaissance period, and pretty limiting for what I preferred to teach. Phylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-46827697007621897892013-08-27T23:26:23.337-04:002013-08-27T23:26:23.337-04:00Thanks, JDS, for chiming back into the conversatio...Thanks, JDS, for chiming back into the conversation. I appreciate your returning to my blog to follow up on the topic. I think one important thing to remember is, as I said above somewhere, our school community - and that can mean a lot of things - what part of the country? Public school or private? Urban or rural? Conservative or liberal population majority? Religious beliefs? Education level of community? And so on. I hope you will continue to stop back and chime in from time to time. I'm generally a pretty open-minded but opinionated gal, and I'm generally not afraid of touching on topics that might spark a range of opinions here on the blog. Your opinions are welcome, as well as Art Project Girl's or anyone else with something worthwhile to say. And sometimes we can all find some common ground! (We all seem to be in agreement about poor Miley, who seems to be desperate in her attempt to get attention.). Thanks for giving me a reason for this post!Phylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-88602984814689079602013-08-27T23:10:59.694-04:002013-08-27T23:10:59.694-04:00I don't mind you going there. I am extremely n...I don't mind you going there. I am extremely narrow-minded, but I'm not sure the ignorant part fits. Simply put, I love my students like they are my own, and I always err on the side of caution when I am in doubt. Your point about Miley is well-taken, Phyl. She once seemed so innocent!<br /><br />"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. Matthew 7:13<br />JDShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05334230908237029353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-44030153684167196952013-08-27T21:23:09.375-04:002013-08-27T21:23:09.375-04:00Such an interesting conversation! I actually have ...Such an interesting conversation! I actually have never taught Dali to elementary kids (for no particular reason), but I watched part one of the video you mentioned on YouTube. I think if I were using it in the classroom I would probably focus on one or two of the Dali characteristics portrayed in the film (juxtaposition, metamorphosis, etc.) and perhaps the classroom applications. I thought the small sections with the nude statue were almost unnoticeable -- not much to get excited about. I do think it is funny how your students heard "crutch". That one would have been hard to anticipate, although easy to prepare for by discussing Dali's use of crutches in some of his paintings.<br /><br />In my time in the classroom I have had a couple of classes where isolated parents objected to various portions of the curriculum, usually for religious, social or cultural reasons. I think I tried to be sensitive to those feelings when they arose and often found ways around the issue or forewarned parents of upcoming lessons that I thought they might find objectionable. Their children were given the opportunity to "opt out" in these instances. It sort of goes back to the old saying, "You can't please all of the people all of the time."<br /><br />Bottom line in your example, Phyl, is that you were following curriculum standards and were thoughtful in your approach to the issues. If you had had parents in your class that you thought might object, you probably would have talked to them before showing the video to their child. I thought the video had a lot of moments ripe for pausing the action and discussing the points and would have no problem showing it. In my current teaching situation, however, I see the kids for so few sessions that I find it hard to get a few images on the Smartboard to discuss for 5 min., let alone show a whole video!!!!!Christie - Fine Lineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10418114130566362780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-11880021214672142712013-08-27T18:27:14.306-04:002013-08-27T18:27:14.306-04:00PS And what about that juicy comment??!!!!
The...PS And what about that juicy comment??!!!! <br /><br />The country going down the toilet because kids are seeing a nude person in surrealist art? I don't think any "souls" were tarnished lol. Unfortunately our practice objectifying and sexualizing the human body are perfectly in place in our messed up American society. I think the reason our country is going down the toilet is because of extremist, ignorant and closed minded views that are fixed in their own ego, religious upbringing, and social values. Had to go there. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05782513928143522368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-53428342479976451032013-08-27T18:13:48.078-04:002013-08-27T18:13:48.078-04:00I wouldn't mind my child seeing that video. I ...I wouldn't mind my child seeing that video. I do however try to not bring any form of nudity into the elementary art classroom. I prepare the students for the museum trip where they will pass nude sculptures, etc. just so they can prepare themselves and know the expected behavior. Reason being, behavior. There is so little time and I frankly don't want to use it discussing the topic which will become a non-topic in the coming years. They don't seem to have a problem when they go to the museum, thankfully. It's a topic I'm leaving to parents, there are bigger fish to fry most days!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05782513928143522368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-77928314987530971522013-08-27T14:51:37.168-04:002013-08-27T14:51:37.168-04:00Crudity - maybe it IS a real word. My iPad didn&#...Crudity - maybe it IS a real word. My iPad didn't autocorrect it to something else!Phylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-3678285654411073302013-08-27T10:18:44.152-04:002013-08-27T10:18:44.152-04:00Well put... I think that it is out duty to teach o...Well put... I think that it is out duty to teach our students the difference between beauty and crudity (made up word for Miley). Thank you for the well put post.Jen Carlislehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17038589884351924996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-70963328754701054442013-08-27T09:14:53.364-04:002013-08-27T09:14:53.364-04:00While I'm here typing comments - one more ques...While I'm here typing comments - one more question: have any of you ever taught lessons on Niki de Saint Phalle? The only blogger I ever remember posting one was a couple of years ago, a blogger in Germany I think. I have a book on women artists directed ant kids, and she is included, but I just got skittish about the possibility of a negative response to her work. Phylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-90544962519378184672013-08-27T09:08:41.215-04:002013-08-27T09:08:41.215-04:00Thanks, Kris. Ultimately, I would still run that ...Thanks, Kris. Ultimately, I would still run that book by your administrator if you have any concerns. Sometimes it's even a good idea to send home a letter to parents, explaining that you will be showing images with nudity and why, and in what capacity, and asking permission. I think it is important to know your student body, school district, and community, and to gauge what is best for you in your situation. Phylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-90358712299041279412013-08-27T09:05:05.555-04:002013-08-27T09:05:05.555-04:00Thanks Rina! The crazy thing is I didn't even...Thanks Rina! The crazy thing is I didn't even realize the turtle's crazy pose until I downloaded the pics from my camera! I have 2 photos with that pose, so he wasn't moving, just balancing. So maybe it is actually turtle tai chi!Phylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00482775924810462890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-57371885971157042982013-08-27T07:39:56.556-04:002013-08-27T07:39:56.556-04:00I agree...a thoughtful post. You addressed an issu...I agree...a thoughtful post. You addressed an issue I have come about a few times as well, yet I'm never quite sure how to approach it myself. (I am a 4th year teacher, so I was nervous to bring up such issues in my early years!) I recently received a beautiful new book from our librarian. It was a book on famous art, donated to our school's library, but she didn't feel comfortable putting it on her shelves because of the nudity in it. Although I cringe a bit to think of conversations I may have to have at a later time, many of by classroom books (on particular artists) have such content...so I just added it to my class library! Her loss was my gain!<br /><br />I appreciate your snark remarks (I even chuckled!), your sharing this great resource, and your suggestions on how to use it appropriately! Thanks!Kris Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10902528116625506140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6650247255320056704.post-10136328783878672732013-08-27T02:01:37.202-04:002013-08-27T02:01:37.202-04:00What a thoughtful post. I agree with you completel...What a thoughtful post. I agree with you completely<br />1) you used materials produced for children<br />2) you ran it by your principal.<br />The nudity was brief and humorous - not explicit or disturbing.<br /><br />P.s. love the turtle ballet!Rina k6art.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16221543895982147381noreply@blogger.com